Cesare ([info]almostnever) wrote,
@ 2004-09-10 11:13:00
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Current mood: thoughtful
Current music:Miranda July - "Girls on Dates"
Entry tags:fandom rambles, lotrips, writing

casting
Recently during a discussion of slash, I saw someone (sorry, lost the link) mention that she thought of "RPS" as standing for "Role Playing Slash" rather than "Real Person Slash", because she thought RPS writers are better served by thinking of the characters in their fiction as original, even if they're modelled heavily on actors; RPS writers are using the actors to play roles, not trying to faithfully depict the actors' lives.

That sounds accurate to me, but potentially confusing, since quite a few of us do write stories via role-playing games, so classing all RPS as "role playing slash" may not be ideal.

I wonder if we aren't ready to move past the RPS label, though, and away from the "morality/legality of RPS" debates. Maybe we can call it something else to help promote understanding of what RPS really is. ETA: After all, Real Person Fiction doesn't have basis in 'reality'; it has basis in media events, reports, articles, and photographs, almost all of which are staged and artificial to one degree or another. So while the term is useful and popular and widespread, I wonder if it's not time for something less semantically loaded and more accurate to the current state of fan fiction to take its place.

Any ideas for other good terms? I kind of like the idea of calling it "casting"... "casting fiction", "casting slash". We're not really writing about Orlando, or Viggo or Ian or Billy or Dom or Elijah. We're casting them in roles in our stories. We just use their names to evoke the appearance and presence of the actor we're casting in the story. And in some AU stories, even the names are different-- David Lawford (Jude Law) in Sable Knot, Nic in Lotr_Porn, Lando in West, for example.

Clearly there's something other than "real person slash" going on here-- the genre's expanded beyond fantasies about the people in question, if it was ever even confined to that. I'd love to see new ways of framing the fiction, new ways of talking about it.

Crossposted with more discussion at Journalfen's Fandom_Lounge.




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[info]norah
2004-09-10 11:38 am UTC (link)
I LIKE "casting slash" or "casting fic". It has vague sleazy overtones of the casting couch and gets us away from the RPS label, which really doesn't feel to me like what we write anyway. I'm not even sure it's possible to conflate the idea of a "real person" with the concept of "fiction" - too much subjectivity just at the conceptual level, there.

I liked something you said once about using Dom as a cipher...but "casting" is better than "cipher" anyway.

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[info]almostnever
2004-09-10 12:13 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I think the word I used there wasn't cipher, but signifier. I like to write about Dom because the real person demonstrated a sheaf of qualities that made him appealing to me as the basis for characters: witty, charming, good-looking though not conventionally handsome, affectionate and touchy, verbally adept, and part of the gorgeous LOTR cast, with ties to other people who can be cast as great characters. Also, and initially the thing that led me to write about him-- I'd already spent a couple of years writing Manchester dialect, so I liked having a chance to do more of that in a Lotrips context.

But it has little to do with the actual person, Dominic Monaghan-- it's about the place he occupies among a constellation, it's about him as a signifier, it's about a collection of traits that I like in him that I choose to highlight and write about, while neglecting other equally important things about the real guy. Someone else might write about Dom because he refers to his parents as hippies, loves to travel, likes insects, and surfs, and their stories would have an entirely different take on him than mine. Even if we use "real life" canon, we're not writing about the real Dominic Monaghan, we're writing a character that we create and put in Dom's shoes. The name 'Dom' becomes a signifier, a placeholder, an inspiration. But none of us are really writing about Dominic Monaghan.

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[info]msilverstar
2004-09-10 12:34 pm UTC (link)
I like casting and signifiers and maybe "avatrars" for talking about what we do. And then there's the collaborative fiction aspect, which is equally amazing and wondrous to me.

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[info]merylmarie
2004-09-10 01:18 pm UTC (link)
It's true that the term could use some tweaking.

Two possibilities: AURPS (although it sounds like a burp :D)
and AACS (Actor As Character Slash).

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[info]msilverstar
2004-09-10 08:50 pm UTC (link)
The Role Playing that Ces and I do is not really a game, it's a set of collaborative fiction encounters in an ongoing framework. It's like a soap opera where the characters write themselves.

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[info]princessofg
2004-09-10 02:34 pm UTC (link)
i love this and i love merylmarie's suggestion of aacs, and i will probably adopt it forthwith. it'll be like alice's restaurant; it'll be a trend... a movement!!!

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[info]acari
2004-09-10 06:18 pm UTC (link)
Gah, no time to get into this in detail. It's something I've been pondering for some time now, seeing how blurry the lines between RPF and orig fic are, especially when you throw AU into the mix. [info]glossing suggested "bodyfic" awhile back.

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[info]almostnever
2004-09-10 06:27 pm UTC (link)
Bodyfic captures the idea well, but just for me personally... it has a sense of prurience that seems well, really invasive-- like we're just using the actors for their bodies when it is a whole suite of qualities most of us draw on, not just their physical forms.

Still, it's a good word for looking at it differently, which is the main thing I'm trying to encourage...

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[info]kyuuketsukirui
2004-09-10 07:14 pm UTC (link)
It depends, though. I mean, sure, for Est!Ewan I try to keep as many canonical details as possible, but SK!Ewan? Not so much.

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[info]acari
2004-09-10 07:29 pm UTC (link)
two discussions connected to the topic:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kita0610/146307.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sweptawaybayou/104776.html

disclaimer: it's 4 AM and I'm sleep deprived, consider yourself warned.

I can understand what makes you uneasy about the term. But aren't we casting the actors in any role we please anyway, however we may call it? I am drawn to the whole package, of course, but I cannot deny that in some case I choose actor A to jump actor B for shallow reasons. It's pretty. End of story.

RPF isn't invasive in general in my eyes, so I don't have much trouble with the idea of "borrowing" the body of an actor to write a story that I think could fit say, Dominic.

Bodyfic works well for me when I think of AUs, especially RPGs. lotr_porn, the establishment, or lotr_speakeasy have more or less drastically altered characters in some cases. The people I read about are called and are supposed to look like Orlando, Elijah, Viggo, etc. but in fact have not much in common with their RL versions. And not because it is bad fic. Maybe it's bad fanfic, because the characterisation is way fucking out there when you compare it to canon. Hmm. Maybe we should stop calling it fanfiction.

I know that I view my involvement with lotr_speakeasy as orig fic to a large degree. My character looks like Hugh Dancy, but he is not him. I have done enough research about the actor to know I only "use" his body to make it more accessible to the fanfic audience. "Use" is maybe the wrong word. I dress my original character in the skin of an actor, figuratively speaking.

bed. now.

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[info]anatsuno
2004-09-11 05:26 pm UTC (link)
Just a personal note: i am only finally (after all this time) starting to see how someone could feel / apply the label of AU to the Establishment Dom-n-Lij - I know, it seems obvious to anyone else, yeah? But though I always thought of the entire Est.Verse as an AU, yes, personally, and because I took pain to cling to canon as much I could, I don't exactly think of Est.Elijah as an AU Lij. Say, no more than Magical Mytery Tour Elijah is AU, or Positivity Elijah.

(part 2 right after, am breaking comment as LJ doesn't seem to want it all in one go)

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[info]anatsuno
2004-09-11 05:30 pm UTC (link)
There's always the fact, of course, that if people have a narrow definition of AU (i don't mean narrow to be derogatory), then obviously ALL RPF is AU. What I mean is that to me, lotr_speakeasy or lotr_porn Lij are proper AU characters - a big, all encompassing difference in who they are (a failing actor turning to porn) and when they are (time period, duh) is there between them and Real!Elijah, which isn't the case between Est!Lij and Real!Lij. Though I can see how someone can make the opposite argument (kink and/or lifestyle and/or having moved in with Dom could all be labeled big all encompassing difference I suppose), I just wanted to point out that's not how I, as the author, think of it and intend it. :)

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[info]kyuuketsukirui
2004-09-12 12:45 am UTC (link)
I agree. I would definitely say the Est. is very "canonical" for the most part. Some people have made different career choices (Jason), or they've come out (Bean, Viggo, etc.), or they don't have the same RL wives/husbands (Ewan), but in so far as any RPF can be "canonical", I think it's much further on that side than the AU side. But like with any long series, it's got degrees of AUness. I don't believe that be it FPF or RPF you can write anything "canonical" unless it's a very short vignette, and even then I still use quotes, because it never will be canon.

But, yeah...the Est. is an AU where you just change a few details, whereas SK, and the other RPGs mentioned are completely different universes.

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[info]anatsuno
2004-09-11 05:30 pm UTC (link)
Of course in the larger picture, I do exactly the same as you, as what Ces describes *is* the practice of RPF in general anyway; I dress my original charater in the skin of an actor.

(finally been able to post! why why why LJ why?! grr.)

bedtime for me too

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[info]stungunbilly
2004-09-16 10:07 pm UTC (link)
Er, late to this post, but.
Iconic fiction?

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